Yuku free message boards
Username or E-mail:
Password:
Forgot
Password?
Sign Up
Grab the Yuku app
Search:
RSS
Email
Jean Grey-Phoenix Fans
>
Archives (OT) 1
>
Is this screwed up or what??? (an LG Rant)
0 Points
Search this Topic:
Remove this ad
«Prev
1
2
Next»
Jump
Forum Jump
Shades of Grey
Polls
The Astral Plane
X-Universe
The Phoenix Cafe
Archives (I)
Archives (II)
Archives (III)
Archives (IV)
Archives (V)
Archives (VI)
Archives (VII)
X-Universe (I)
Archives (OT) 1
Archives (OT) 2
Archives (OT) 3
Archives (OT) 4
Archives (OT) 5
Archives (OT) 6
<< Previous Topic
Next Topic >>
Re: Is this screwed up or what??? (an LG Rant)
Author
Comment
Unregistered(d)
Re: Is this screwed up or what??? (a Dini Rant)
#1
[-]
Posts
: 0
Oct 19 01 5:58 PM
Reply
Quote
More
My Recent Posts
Hello Everyone,
I know this is a more or less buried topic, but I wanted to respond to bring up some points. I have tended to shy from these discussions, save the first one, but I feel compelled to respond to this. Perhaps it s a build-up from everything I have heard so far. I saw your apology LG, so curiosity being the better of me (as always
) I thought I would see what the disruption was about.
Actually, I completely saw the humor in the first message for what it was. The second one I could see how it could have been misinterpreted. But the way you were celebrating that guy seemed to undercut it subtly (like Huck Finn, the book). Still, that type of rebuke can easily not be seen as that.
Now for the disclaimer, my comments should be in no way construed as representing LG, but should be attributed solely to Dini.
That's probably going to be it for my happy faces, because my rant will be a bit on the serious side, but hopefully you guys can see the arguments for what they are (whether you agree or not).
I guess I'll start with an analogy. I feel like the US is like Gambit. Sure he doesn't always do things that are wholly nice, and sure in quite a few of those times, he has also benefited from certain circumstances. But equally he has placed his life on the line for others, and in the same token has sacrificed himself for no other reason than to do the right thing. Yet for the longest time many other team members ignored him, or were angry with him, or condemned him, most of whom have less than stellar track records themselves.
I read LG's comments and I read the responses that she received and I somewhat marveled at them. I mean, the drops do point to a certain contradiction. We solicited people for money for the devastation that occurred here, and in DC/PA. But we have billions (or is it just millions?) to drop for free on Afganistan? In some ways it's kind of unbelievable to me the more I think about it. Archie, you said that the Afghans deserve food - it's the humane thing to do. But why do they deserve it from us? Just because it has been our policy in the past doesn't mean it has to stay that way. And especially reading what Ersatz said. The whole purpose was to show the Afghan people that we were at a war with the Taliban and not them. But if they are seeing this as hypocritical (I would like to think more benignly of the US government for doing this than you Justin), and burning it, then I don't know about you guys, but I can certainly think of better things to do with our food and our money!
I mean I was listening to the reports about the restaurants that were feeding the emergency crews at ground zero. And don't get me wrong, because I think that is absolutely a great and noble thing to do. But they have jobs, and weeks from now when things are somewhat more normal (at least than before) they will still be able to eat. I remember walking down the streets about a week after the attack, and saw some homeless gathered on the subway gratings (they exit onto the street if that is not familiar to any of you). We have tons of homeless people living here just as a status quo (it's unlike anything I've seen in the larger cities like Boston, Phili, Baltimore even). I bet they would be more than happy to have some free food, and appreciate it (I guess unless they were drug addicted).
I just don't want us to lose perspective as we seek to get out of this. I remember almost immediately after the planes hit the various spots everyone was saying how we have to be respectful. We need to hate the terrorists, and not Muslims, or Arabs. Various Arabs around the city were citing discrimination they encountered based solely on their ethnicity. Really?! Who would have thought that would happen in the US (yes, you do hear subtle sarcasm there)? I in no ways condone any type of violence, be it verbal or physical. But I was only mildly sympathetic for the cabbies who cited that people wouldn't use them because they were afraid. What I hope is that some positive paradigm shifts (to coin one of Nicks phrases) occurred in some peoples thinking. Maybe they would end their own ethnic profiling. Again, not saying all, but I have seen many a time Arab cabbies blithely blow past African-Americans because of 'fear'. I've also seen other people of color treated badly, or with quite obvious discrimination by Arabs (or Arab-Americans). What I truly hope is that they see the folly in their own discrimination, based on what they have experienced thus far. Or that we all would see the folly in this type of profiling and extend it to all American citizens that have been singled out and abused because of their differences.
What bothers me most of all about this I guess is the blatant incongruities that seem always determined to pin the blame upon the US. I found it pretty funny when I read Ersatzs comments on how we should stop our determined isolationism, yet Justin wrote that we are being targeted because of our meddling in other peoples affairs. I hope I am not the only one who sees this blatant contradiction as at least a bit funny, in a bitter wry way anyway. I just want to know which one is it? Other countries cannot have it both ways. We are either going to extradite ourselves from other countries, or we are going to make a determined effort to be involved.
Now this is going to sound pretty bad, but about that story you related Justin, about the HIV treatments being produced in other countries like Brazil & India, why should they feel proud about that? All I want to know is who is it that created the drug? Was it us (us being USA)? If so, then all they did was bully us into letting them copy it. Why cant they get their own drugs?
I reread that comment and I just keep thinking how heartless that must sound, but I say that to bring up a bigger point. Not every country, and certainly not every citizen. But I get the feeling the feeling that countries want us involved only as much so as it benefits them, but after that we can easily be dropped or disparaged. Which is often what America does too, but somehow, other countries are seen as more benign? The US is not just some money tree that others can shake at will. They had recently in the Times a photo in either Afghanistan or Pakistan of a street scene, with a big ad of Kentucky Fried Chicken. They hate us, but yet they are willing to take part in our commerce? America is condemned for being too involved, yet we are criticized for having embargos? Why do we have to trade with anyone. And I mean in a simplistic sense. You dont have to get into the macro-economics of it. Im not a math major, I will go into brain overload!
Ok so I made one happy face. I dont know about you guys but I dont know if I want to give money to various causes etc, no strings attached. I mean heck, family members do this, say when parents give money for weddings, and thats their children even!
And I am also growing a bit skeptical of the whole we are fighting the terrorists and not the Afghanis. And this is based partially on what justin said in one of his posts: regimes like the Taliban rule with the consent of the people. If that is true, then should we not hold the citizens responsible for the government they uphold? I do not see the terrorsit groups ever saying our war is with the government not the us people. Bin Laden went out of his way to say that he hopes every citizen in the US will never feel peace until his demands are met (in the tape they now stopped showing). And even these targeted Anthrax attempts, if they are originating form the same cells, are not hitting their intended targets, but innocent people like postal workers and admin assists. But what do I hear its a terrible tragedy, but blah blah blah.
And lets talk about those demands. There are none. Absolute COWARDS! No, not the guys in the plane. That took an exorbitant amount of faith that I wished more of us had. I am talking about the organizers. They are cowards. I have more respect for earlier terrorist groups. At least they stated what they wanted, stated why they thought their cause was just, and stood behind it. This is all smoke and shadows, innuendos and back door political inferencing. If they dont have the guts to stand behind what they did, then why should we even give credence to what MIGHT be what they want. I say we dont change not a jot, not a tittle, not even a period of our foreign policy. Let them come forward in an honest fashion if their cause is so just, if they believe it to be. Then I would be open. If we change now all we are saying is that we can be bullied into doing what others want.
Ive been hearing the refrain, does violence solve anything? How I wish that were true. But do we really think that Hitler would have just given up if we didnt fight him? Do we really think that the South wouldve come back to the union if we didnt go to war with one another? Do we think the British would have just said OK, you guys can be your own country, we dont mind. Im not saying all wars are good, pretty, or even necessary. But arent some? I dont want to lose any more life than necessary. But you know, if we are afraid to die (as a nation) and Afghanistan and the Taliban (or whoever else) isnt then they will win. Do I want to die? Heck no. But arent some things worth dying for?
And yeah lisa, if they bombed our cities it would be much worse. But I saw an interesting piece on the attack on ABC (I think). They interviewed the people in a town in PA. They ended it by saying the same amount of people that were missing (dead) were that same amount as the population of that small city. They took out a whole citys worth of people. And if those buyildings werent so well constructed then then the death toll would have easily been in the tens and twenties of thousands.
And the US is not the fundamental cause of Afghans dying if they starve in the desert. Or rather no more so than the countries who are denying them access to their countries. But is anyone saying that? And what about the Taliban? They could have saved their people by giving up Bin laden and the al Quaeda network. But why are they not held responsible? Its their people they are sacrificing.
And Justin, I think those people are insane. But insanity and intelligence are not mutually exclusive. Hitler was insane. He was also a genius.
And I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you about the radical Christian thing and terrorism Justin. Not all of it, perse. But LG said the problem that this particular fanatical group, because believing everyone else is doomed to hell, will kill without compunction. And though that may have been true for Christianity in its various forms in the past, it is not true, more or less, today. And just because no one is a certain religion does not mean that they are Christian by default. I used to follow the stories about the Serbs and the Croats, and I guess well have to agree to disagree, because at no point did the battle ever strike me as a religious one, but an ethnic one, even if the differences are minute. Humans have a great capacity to hate at times.
And yes, lots of Christian groups believe everyone outside their belief system is destined to hell, but that leads many of them to convert them, not kill them. And the few that a fan of murder (such as the bombings of the abortion clinics) are condemed just as readily for their misconstrued beliefs. Judaism is based on the same belief but they do not have any sort of need to go killing off various non-Jewish people.
Wow, have I said a lot. And I have to go anyway. But I just wanted to share my thoughts. If people are saying we should be better than others, then that is fine with me. But I guess I do grow a bit weary from all the consternation heaved at the US without at least some acknowledgement of the things we do well. Im not talking blind patriotism. But I wish that we could give a critical eye not only to the US but to other places as well. Thats the only way these things will get resolved for good I think.
I thank you for reading the xx-large post.
Sincerely,
Dini
"If you didn't believe it before, you can absolutely believe it now, New York City is the greatest city in the world." - David Letterman
"Girls kick ***, says os on a t-shirt." - Dark Angel
<< Previous Topic
Next Topic >>
Forum Jump
Shades of Grey
Polls
The Astral Plane
X-Universe
The Phoenix Cafe
Archives (I)
Archives (II)
Archives (III)
Archives (IV)
Archives (V)
Archives (VI)
Archives (VII)
X-Universe (I)
Archives (OT) 1
Archives (OT) 2
Archives (OT) 3
Archives (OT) 4
Archives (OT) 5
Archives (OT) 6
Share This
Email to Friend
del.icio.us
Digg it
Facebook
Blogger
Yahoo MyWeb
«Prev
1
2
Next»
Jump
Jean Grey-Phoenix Fans
>
Archives (OT) 1
>
Is this screwed up or what??? (an LG Rant)
Click to subscribe by RSS
Click to receive E-mail notifications of replies