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Love and (Gay) Marriage
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Re: Love and (Gay) Marriage
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DelvianOracle
Ugh, here reluctantly....
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Feb 17 04 4:07 AM
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Ok, so just a preface. I really struggled with whether or not to post this, but I have done so unedited. I appologize in advance for how harsh some of it sounds. I'm not being critical of people here, just of ideas they put forth. I have amazing respect for everyone who has engaged in this topic
So here it is:
Well, thanks to Link for making me read this thread, because now I have to post, even though I was avoiding it! No disrespect to anyone who started this topic or has continued it, it's a great topic, I'm just getting tired of it. You can imagine how many times I've talked about this recently as an openly gay student in sociology classes!
Ok, so here goes. I am constantly amazed by how little Nickx and I have in common politically, maybe because I think we have a lot in common in other ways! Anyway, I couldn't agree less with this whole "let's call it something else" theory. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it boils my blood. Haven't we learned anything from our failures in the past in the US? How well did "separate but equal" work for African Americans? Great, we all get bus seats and water fountains and restrooms, but we can't use the same ones? WHAT!!!!!! Maybe next we can get store owners little signs that say "we don't serve gays here" so we can get our own separate but equal restaurants too. Won't that be special? I think not.
Historical precedent is cr@p. I hate that argument. "Well, marriage has been generally understood and framed throughout history as between men and women,". And that's a reason to keep it that way? Maybe we should try that with some of our good African American friends when next we see them, because historical and religious-historical precedent also condone slavery. It sucks when logical extensions of a nice-sounding argument end up so wrong, doesn't it?
If people can't have the same rights and call their unions the same things, then we should get rid of them (meaning the rights and names). If I can't call it "marriage" instead of "civil union", then str8 people shouldn't get to use the term either. And personally, I don't give 3 chickens about what percentage of America happens to identify as Christian! When our laws start to reflect a bias toward a certain religious group, as they always have, then those laws need to be changed. If not, then make Christianity the official religion of this country, and end all this BS about a separation of Church and State.
While I don't want to get married right now, I think it is MORE than ridiculous that gay people have to go through 50 times as much work to get the same rights as str8 people when it comes to marriage and all the tax, insurance, etc. benefits it confers. And don't even talk to me about adoption, because that sucks more for gay couples too. All of this is just political insulation for the religious ideal of a nuclear family unit that involves a man and a woman, 2.5 kids, a dog, and Jesus Christ. After all, isn't it the collapse of the traditional family that has caused all our current societal woes? Whatever is all I can say to that
And really, don't be naive. Those of you who say things like "well the law says that if a gay person can present certain documents, they HAVE to be allowed the same rights as heteros," should really examine just how well that seems to work out. Tell me this, for example: when black men finally received the legal right to vote, could they just go out and do it? The historical data says no because of individual policies made by states and areas that limited those rights. Unless you have gay-friendly police backing up your piece of paper that says you have equal rights, good luck getting into the room to see your sick gay partner. The law may say yes, but actual practice is usually far from the picturesque mechanism some of you would like to make it seem. Go work in a hospital like SVC and see what you see. Go collect data from gay couples IN these situations. I'm sure you'll find a much different story than "Oh yeah, I held up my papers and the doctors rushed me right in!".
I guess I wish I could believe some of the things some of you have stated in this thread. It would be great if law always translated into practice in this way. And sure, there are legal avenues to pursue all this stuff, but those require money, and time, and often a good deal of both. Things that are not currently required for str8 people in similar circumstances, and that seems wrong to me. And while I guess giving gay people the ok to marry wouldn't necessarily stop some of the unlawful bias I'm talking about here, but at least it would be a real step. If names aren't important, as some of you say, then why not poll the nation and ask how many str8 people would be willing to call their marriages "civil unions". My guess is that you'd find that a name is pretty important to most people
To sum it up shortly, Link:
Gay marriage: YES
Nick
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