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Kiss Womens' rights goodbye...
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Re: Kiss Womens' rights goodbye...
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Re: Kiss Womens' rights goodbye...
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Feb 3 06 5:53 PM
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I am such a bad citizen, because not only did I not look at the state of the union speech, but I didn't even
consider
watching it! The man says absolutely nothing! I mean, most politicians don't, but at least they say it well. He is just not that great a speaker, and if he is on top of that saying fluff, then I would rather watch L&O:SVU, or anything on HGTV! (For the record I thought Clinton was an awesome speaker, who I liked, and Reagan was an excellent speaker, who I totally despised!). But I gave up on getting anything meaningful from his speeches after the Katrina debacle, when he pretty much followed through on NOTHING he promised. All bs! So without the entertaining aspect, what is the point!
Alas I am the ignorant American!
That is an excellent quote Domino! Carlin is hilarious! But I think he brings up a good point. And thanks Han for the synopsis about the speech. Very interesting, and cool that she spoke at your school.
I am actually very pro-abortion, and I say pro-abortion because I feel like people tend to use verbal gymnastics in order to make their point more palatable, but what is the point? I mean we have a pro-life and a pro-choice....2 pro sides and no anti side, and no mention at all about abortion! I mean heck you can be very pro choice and pro-life about a plethora of things!
I am very pro-choice when it comes to Starbucks Coffee say! hehe
But to me it seems both sides don't want to call a spade a spade: it is either pro abortion or anti abortion. So I am pro.
For me though, my opions have shifted a bit over time. Kind of weird how Han quoted that most people were not around when Roe V Wade went down. I wasn't either, but just barely since I was born in '73. It makes you think... But when I was younger I thought it was just this little blip of stuff that couldn't even be considered a person. And for me, with the onset of sonogram technology, I look at those early little pictures and I can no longer say that the entity is not a life, not a little being that can be born. We know so much about fetus now...much more than they did when I was most of your ages and was debating this in my high school classes.
But I think that is a valid point about the rights we assign someone not born. That is a point that makes sense to me. And even before that, while I could agree with some of the anti-abortion side, I still felt they had no real reconciled answer for what to do about the fact that the child is still in the woman's body. if there was a way to extract the baby, and put it in an incubator or something, and the government can grow it and put it in foster care, then that would be one point, and I think you would see abortions decline greatly! But how can you tell someone to not only have the baby, but carry it for the months as it drains the mother of finances, possibly health, or who knows what else. What if she has a job that doesn't really allow for paid leave? Then she is at an economic loss? What if she has no money for food? if the baby is malnourished, they government will want to arrest her for neglect. What if someone was in yoru house, and could only survive *I know but go with me a little on this one!
* in yoru house, if they left they would die. But you don't want them in yoru house. What to do? I could be wrong, but I think that the government would respect the right of the property owner. But the right over your own body should be infinitely greater than the right to own property (although sometimes it doesn't seem so).
I think part of what makes the pro-life position, at least as pushed by certain groups, untenable are the things they don't address in their push for the sanctity of life. They desire to make abortions illegal, thereby penalizing the mother and possibly the doctor involved. But what about the father? I like what my friend said: any anti abortion law that only adresses the woman and not the man will inherintly be unfair. So what to do about the dad? And what do you do with the hardship that the mother will incur? many of these people also cry bloody murder when you talk about social programs - some specifically designed to help the preganant women most likely to want an abortion. What about serious sex-ed where they discuss contraception and the proper use of it? That woudl also cut down on abortions.
And I would especially love what they are going to do with all of these babies being born? Many of the women who would want an abortion will come from undesirable groups whose children will have a hard time, if not near impossible time, of being adopted. And we only have to read the headlines to see the sad state of government care concerning children of the state.
On top of that, it seems that some of the laws that protect the privacy of the parents may be whittled away. Some people are proposing that children have the right to find their biological parents. And while I understand the push to do that (they want to know medical history that could save theirs or their children's lives), then again, that is another burden heaped on the parents, which would drive more people I think to abortion. I am not even going to go into rape, since it seems at least only the most staunch opponents to abortion won't allow that.
And they need to think seriously about the harm it will cause lower class women. Do they really think they will stop abortions? Nope! Those with the most money will travel to the states that allow it, and be ok. It will be Katrina all over again, those with the least means will be the ones to bear the full brunt of the law.
To be honest, I am astounded by how strongly and ferverently some people feel about abortions. I mean I have met some who would step over a poor homeless person in desperate need but decry the rights of the unborn. And I know too many people who would have rather been aborted as opposed to live, if you can believe that! And mind you, not all pro-livers, but a definite percentage also approve of sterilizing mothers on welfare when they have a certain number fo children! Thank goodness this hasn't passed. But really, seems pretty hypocritical to me. Maybe they have a nice pat way to explain the variance...I'd love to hear it. I don't even have a problem with them protesting it, but do it in a humane way! Not by sscreaming at women as they go in clinics, but by simply talking to them! I mean it may work, it may not, but at least then you have shown you are prolife - because how can you be pro-life but treat the woman like scum?
In some ways I feel like Buddy. I mean, as it is now, it won't affect me - at least in the sense of denying me rights. NYC is the abortion capital of the country: we have an open policy, no requirements to tell parents, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a doctor who wouldn't perform it (although I am sure there are some). People already come to New York to get abortions and go back to their homes. I think as long as it is a states issue, and not federally banned, then there will be some holdouots (NYC, maybe LA or San Fran?), so all is not totally lost. But having much of America come here for abortions will affect me...I am just not sure how. In fact, I may be on the other end of the continuum, wondering if I'll be able to have kids and such...but that is another issue for another thread!
Of course, even if this is federally banned, we will just see a surge of "european trips to see Auntie", if you get what I mean.
I guess I am also not worried...yet...because since Renquist (it was Renquist right? Suddenly I forgot his name!
) this almost feels like a conservative wash. But I will start to worry when he replaces Sandra. Then that will give me possibly huge cause for worry.
Heck the way things are going on foreign policy, we may not even have a nation to debate these issues! Sounds fatalistic I'm sure, but I do believe that we'll have another world war. And I also believe even if it is not global in nature, America will eventually have to fight a war on its own home turf...and no the civil war does not count.
Err, I feel all gloomy! Um, at least we are all engaged in interesting, thought-provoking debate?
thanks!
dini
"Explain these motions and metaphors, unlock these secrets in me. Describe the vision, the meaning is missing, will anybody listen? Define the riddles of my mind, nothing is really what it seems... Do you see what I see? Can you hear what I hear? Do you feel what I feel...can't stop sleeping awake." - POD
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