Crescent wrote:Well, they said they wouldn't bring back Maddie but, it seems they did, so it's a possibility that they've done other things that they've said they wouldn't do. Besides, they've already set a precedent for that, too. A LONG time ago.
But didnt they said they will not bring back Maddie? so i doubt the possibility in that. What i am thinking is that Red Queen is actually Jean Grey and the reason why Betsy sided with her is because she knows everything, or prolly now Emma does. hehehe what i am thinking is a long shot but hehe who knows ^_^
uncanny x-men 510 (spoilers)
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 fuuin ekusu |
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Posts: 478 (05/23/09 5:30 PM) Registered User |
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fuuin ekusu |
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Posts: 479 (05/23/09 5:31 PM) Registered User |
SwtVanillaChild wrote:Well, I think we've waited a long time, already, lol. But, I guess we'll just have to wait and see, eh? 
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The Thunderbird |
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Posts: 46 (05/23/09 5:38 PM) |
I was wondering, how would you feel if Jean returns in 511 having nothing to do with Hope?
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SwtVanillaChild |
Big return | ||
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Posts: 1694 (05/23/09 5:49 PM) |
I'd like to see Jean come back in a big way...
Not just as a single issue in an arc, but a whole arc about her return. Of course, as is the case with Jean, a lot is left unsaid...but it would be great for a writer to dive into her brain when she returns. What does it mean to her to return and find the world the way it is? How does she feel about the cycle of life and death she continues to experience? And where is her place now? When she returned during her X-Factor years, she was just thrown back into the X-World. It would also be really nice to have something focus on her relationship with her oldest friends (Storm, Polaris, etc...,) and how they feel about her and the Phoenix. One of my biggest gripes about Endsong (and was made it feel tacky and rushed) was how detached everyone was to see her return. She didn't interact with anyone but Logan. Personally, if my best friend died and was suddenly reborn again...we'd have something to talk about. Since her death, Marvel has constantly dropped hints about her return. In Astonishing X-Men, during Deadly Genesis, and now with Hope Summers. It's apparent that someday Jean will return, but just when and how remains to be seen.
''I genuinely love you and I genuinely care. And I genuinely want to see you in heaven someday.''--Tammy Faye
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fuuin ekusu |
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Posts: 480 (05/23/09 8:10 PM) Registered User |
Completely agreed, SVC. I'm not a huge fan of Storm but she DOES play an essential part in Jean's life. And that was something that seemed to be a
hugely obvious ommission in Endsong. Even with Scott (whom I believe still loves her because I don't believe that a love like theirs could end just like
that. It's simply that she just isn't his priority in the ongoing issues, right now, although I find it sad, imho) I believe they didn't really
delve into his feelings on the subject. They implied and suggested but they didn't really delve. So, I hope they do the same, dig deep into not only
Jean's psyche but all her friends', loves', and family's psyches.
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Charybdis4 |
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Posts: 1013 (05/24/09 4:37 AM) |
Sorry to put a dampner on things, but the more I think about it, the more I don't think she will be back in 511.
I'm guessing that the Red Queen's plan to clone a body fails when the X-Men strike back (including the "greatest ever Dazzler scene"!) We may get another Jean tease, indicating that she is nearer to coming back, but I think that will be it. The issue after 511 is the boring science club & then after that it's Harry's boring Dark X-Men beating the crap out of the team & I can't see her fitting into that. IF she does actually come back next issue, then I bet she flies off to try & get her head around everything, but then the brief appearance in 510 implies that she is confident & in control. I just can't see one issue dedicated to her coming back. I know the Phoenix hardcover is out next month as well, which is always a good sign, but I really think we will have to wait a bit longer. |
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fuuin ekusu |
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Posts: 481 (05/24/09 5:43 AM) Registered User |
Boring Dark X-Men? Boring science club? Not from where I'm standing (lul), especially when Dark X-Men gets Emma away from Scott (whether or NOT Scott and Jean get back together because I just think that Emma is bad for Scott, period) and when the science club might be one of the ways to bring Jean back (even though there is no obvious connection at the moment...). Anyways, just my thoughts.... ^^ |
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PSINGRAPHD |
FRIGGIN' AWESOME!!!!!!! | ||
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Posts: 170 (05/24/09 1:28 PM) |
Those two pages alone gave me the best Jean Grey-gasm I've gotten from comics since Endsong! It induced a pure state of momentary euphoria when I first
laid eyes on them! Before we get too mired delving into the details of our individual interpretations, let's not forget the significance of this being
Jean's first official 616 appearance since early 2005's aforementioned Endsong. While it's basically only a cameo, to me the scene is worthy of
being defined as an almost mini-event... seriously! This proves that she is indeed not "dead", as many of her detractors like to claim, and is in
fact still able to affect the goings-on within the current Marvel Universe proper. Which is exactly what her fans have been suspecting and saying all along,
so... F U, HATERS!!! < Just HAD to get that out of my system, lol. Yes, I know, technically it can be argued that it is only her "spirit" and
therefore she should still be considered deceased. But we, as her devoted followers, can counter that this is Jean Grey/Phoenix we're talking
about and she transcends the category of death. It doesn't apply to her like it does to other more ordinary characters, she's special, and
DUH... her codename IS Phoenix! Besides, I think using the mere term of "spirit" in her case would be completely wrong anyway, she's
beyond that and more of a "force" in my mind. Now we have actual evidence to support and justify our theories, provided by those who have the final
say no less, Marvel themselves. Better days are ahead for Jean Grey's comic reading fans my friends, it's just a matter of time and quite frankly, it
always has been IMHO. So cheers, and let the celebration commence, it's been long overdue!
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Crescent |
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Posts: 428 (05/25/09 9:14 AM) Registered User |
wow Psi finally you got an avatar! hehehe
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 Zed |
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Posts: 62 (05/25/09 7:01 PM) |
Fraction has said the X-men has been all about the guys, so he wanted to write more powerful female characters. I'm 100% sure the Red Queen will succeeding
in cloning herself a new body from Jean's hair, (the sisterhood was successful at everything else, including bringing back Psylocke's dead body). They
did that pretty much instantly, meaning they likely can rapidly create a clone, particularly with Spiral's help. But the Red Queen creating a new Jean
clone has NOTHING to do with Jean whatsoever. It's the return of Madelyne Pryor, and we her her fly up in the air with a fiery aura for the cover for UXM
511. Fraction's been more or less reasonably predictable with his stories.
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The Thunderbird |
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Posts: 47 (05/25/09 10:20 PM) |
Zed wrote:It says right here in this link that Maddie is not being brought back. Marvel.com wrote:
Some readers may remember the Red Queen as Madelyne Pryor, Cyclops' former wife and
mother of Nathan Summers, aka Cable. But Fraction quickly points out that "we're
not bringing Maddie back into the fold, we're bringing the Red Queen back.
In a Newsarama interview linked right here, Fraction points out that the Red Queen only thinks she is Maddie. Newsarama wrote:
In terms of exactly who the Sisterhood would be adding to their ranks, Fraction acknowledged the obvious notables: Spiral, Lady Deathstrike, and
Madelyne Pryor but was quick to correct, "The Red Queen-is a member. Whether or not she's really Madelyne Pryor
remains to be seen. She certainly seems to think she's Madelyne Pryor."
The books only still call the Red Queen Maddie because they have still yet to say otherwise. They would not stop calling her Maddie suddenly for no reason. Matt Fraction and Nick Lowe stated that an old favorite will get resurrected, and if you've read 508, you know that Betsy Braddock is not being resurrected because she hasn't been dead in a while. This is proved by when the Sisterhood ask what do they fill a dead girl up with, the Red Queen replies that they will fill up Kwannon's corpse with a live one. The resurrection will not be the Red Queen either because since she was introduced in mid 2008, she is not an "old favorite". Can you say one good reason why Jean isn't returning without mentioning "Joe Q doesn't want her back", "We've been led down this road before", "Jean's return should be a part of an event", "Marvel wants to milk it", or the Dark Avengers crossover?
Last Edited By: The Thunderbird
05/25/09 10:25 PM.
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white nightwing |
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Posts: 28 (05/25/09 10:35 PM) |
if you look at what fraction said, he never outright admits that the Red Queen is not Maddie, nor that she is the one being resurrected. saying they're not
bringing maddie back into the fold could just mean she's not rejoining the x-men.
most people are saying it's not jean returning because it's just not the right time both storywise and businesswise, knowing what's already up on deck for future issues. the odds just aren't favoring her at the moment. but who knows, maybe they'll surprise us afterall. |
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John C loves Phoenix |
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Posts: 5614 (05/25/09 11:04 PM) Slim |
White Nightwing: "if you look at what fraction said, he never outright admits that the Red Queen is not Maddie, nor that she is the one being
resurrected."
The Thunderbird: "But Fraction quickly points out that 'we're not bringing Maddie back into the fold, we're bringing the Red Queen back.'" That seems to imply that they are indeed two different people. IMO it wouldn't make sense for him to contradict himself within the same sentence. Personally, I'm not getting excited over this Red Queen/Maddie/Sisterhood thing. I'll get excited when I see Jean (like I did for that one page that was posted the other day when she's helping Emma)... and who knows if that was REALLY Jean. Could have been a mirage or something absurd like that. We all know Marvel. Until Jean is back for certain... I'm not holding my breath. |
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The Thunderbird |
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Posts: 49 (05/25/09 11:04 PM) |
white nightwing wrote:He talks about them as if they were two different characters. By the fold, he means the whole storyline. The difference between Hope and Mutant Zero and what they're building up to with Jean now is that this doesn't seem have any major contradictions along the way. Even Hope and Mutant Zero had evidence against them. For Hope, Mike Carey admitted that misdirection was involved in the character and that Fraction said that Jean was still dead while Hope was running around with Cable. Fraction's statement at Heroes Con 2008 also contradicts Mutant Zero. Mutant Zero also shows characteristics that contradicts Jean's and then you have this X-Position.
Christos Gage wrote:
The true identity of Mutant Zero will absolutely, positively be revealed in issue #20. As for what
happens to her next, what makes you think the X-Men would want her...?
In short, don't be surprised if you see Jean Grey back in June. |
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fuuin ekusu |
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Posts: 482 (05/26/09 1:42 AM) Registered User |
That seems to imply that they are indeed two different people. IMO it wouldn't make sense for him to contradict himself within the same sentence.>>
I guess I am simply trying to hold onto my liking of UXM, because it will be blown to smithereens if this does indeed turn out not to be Maddie. Unfortunately, too, Jean's appearance is being tainted by this, for me.... Sad to say, but I'm getting to the point where I might not even consider buying UXM, even if Jean appears in the series, if the former turns out to be true.... They have to sacrifice the reappearance of Maddie (and tease those of us who like her in the meantime) in order to bring back Jean? That does lead me to conclude that the writer(s) have a lack of understanding for Jean's character and her history and respect for readers, which means she WON'T need to be or be written well in this series. Not something I (or others, I believe) want to see happen to her. Although, I would also like to add that there IS another implication, which is what I gather WN meant and what I've stated earlier. That the Red Queen may just be a facet of Maddie's personality, one she gained when the second Red Queen impersonated her and one that came to the fore, immediately, but, subsequently, only overlayed the "Maddie personality" on top of her own for reasons yet unknown (even though I can make guesses on that), and which would still make her the Red Queen facet, especially once those reasons are revealed, and still refer to the distinctive difference (because that last indeed doesn't have to mean two different people but instead mean two personalities) Matt Fraction mentioned. Thus fulfilling the idea of bringing the Red Queen back but not Maddie, herself, without actually removing her from the picture. So, this doesn't seem so cut and dried yet does seem to be something that could be MUCH more interesting, at the same time.... Plus, they did something similar with Mutant Zero and our assumption that it had to be someone other than Maddie in the first place, because she wasn't 'dead'. Mutant Zero was explained away by some very blatant and hole-filled spin-doctoring. And Maddie, well, she was dead, even in the strictest sense of the word. So why would I assume they weren't doing something similar, here? Besides, I would think people would want MORE readers for this series, not less...? ^^; <<Whether or not she's really Madelyne Pryor remains to be seen. She certainly seems to think she's Madelyne Pryor.>> I'm sorry but that implies that she's Maddie MORE not less.... "Seems", "whether or not" and "remains to be seen" are not definitive answers by any stretch of my imagination, lol and resemble that spin-doctoring I mentioned, earlier. <<By the fold, he means the whole storyline.>> Although I don't see how that is necessarily implied, even if that is true, there has been mention made by another member of Maddie dropping out of sight once she has completed her goal, making a cloned body for herself, but whether it is because of a mistake occurring (Jean taking over the body, instead, leading to a satisfactory conlusion for all, it would seem...) or because she DID accomplish her goal, is unknown. That could mean that the Red Queen facet of her personality leaves this fold, which, as explained above, technically counts as Maddie not being brought back into this storyline, at all. <<and that Fraction said that Jean was still dead while Hope was running around with Cable.>> I would just like to point out that there has been some contradictory evidence about whether Jean died or not, too. If Jean didn't die, Matt Fraction will have to do some fancy footwork, again. However, now that I'm in a somewhat clearer frame of mind (so tired last night, but couldn't sleep and had baggy eyes), I realize I should have addressed this sooner, made the connection between thinking it and writing it down: These ARE just my thoughts and I *don't* want to offend anyone.... Thank ya!
Last Edited By: fuuin ekusu
05/26/09 11:27 AM.
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Zed |
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Posts: 64 (05/26/09 9:15 AM) |
We've also been down the road where everyone is jumping up and down, and declaring that Jean is back. Only not to have her come back. And though some
people blame Marvel, sometimes a person can want something so bad they convince themselves that everything that they see is evidence to cover their viewpoints.
As for what Fraction said in interviews, well, Joe Quesada has said in interviews the dead remain dead and that is his final policy. Hmmm, how many people have
returned since then? Illyana Rasputin, Piotr Rasputin, Psylocke, Chimera, among others. Dan Slott said Typhoid Mary would be a woman known to casual comic
readers, which many on this forum interpreted to be Jean Grey. And she was Typhoid Mary! Claremont said in interview that Mystique grew you know what, got
Destiny pregnant, and the child was Nightcrawler. But this was never published, instead, Nightcrawler is Mystique's mother. When they interviewed the
writers of X-Infernus, they said Illyana had the Madelyne Pryor role, made it seem like she would unleash demons on San Francisco, said Amanda Sefton would
guest star, and none of this happened. So quite frankly, what's said in interviews is 100% irrelevant. They've been off or wrong so many times it's
not even funny. What matters it's what's published. What's published is Madelyne Pryor (the books refer to her as such) is obviously the one to
return next issue, as she creates a Jean clone to house her consciousness. And this lady, Red Queen, isn't Queen Jean. Queen Jean wasn't a sorceress
like Maddie Pryor was, and also, the return of Queen Jean wouldn't have the emotional impact that Madelyne Pryor would, given Maddie's history with the
X-Men. Plus, not only Cyclops identified her as Maddie, so did Wolverine, who is very, very, hard to FOOL.
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The Thunderbird |
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Posts: 50 (05/26/09 3:29 PM) |
Zed wrote:Joe Quesada's dead means dead was an old policy that was since then scrapped. Morrison wanted to use Colossus and Moira and Claremont wanted to bring back Psylocke right after he killed her off, but Quesada wouldn't let them. Quesada hasn't said dead means dead since loads of people started coming back. The interviews that "lied" were only mentioned one or two times and could be referring to the truth, but the writers possibly had a change of plans since the interview. You make it sound like the interviews lie all the time but they don't or fans will never take them seriously. Jean's return was hinted at multiple times continuously. Why would the X-Editors lie many times when they say she's coming back? They never said she was coming back when Mutant Zero and Hope Summers first appeared. Also why would they make Maddie become the Phoenix? 511 has Phoenix host rising out of the grave and the Phoenix is in the White Hot Room with Jean. A clone would have no Phoenix. I heard Fraction was one who used the Byrne retcon as seen in Dark Reign: The Cabal in Emma's story. Going by the Byrne retcon, the Phoenix sucessfully fooled Wolverine into thinking that she was Jean Grey. As for the magic thing, the Phoenix is a nigh omnipotent entity that could manipulate any form of energy and possesing Maddie's memories, it could probably have the knowledge to cast spells. Plus Wolverine was fooled by the Elektra Skrull in New Avengers, so a Phoenix fragment could definetely fool him. Speaking of Elektra, Dan Slott was referring to people who watched the Elektra film as those who didn't read comics regularly that would recognie Typhoid Mary. They did publish that the Phoenix left Korvus and Rachel, the latter who said "Please....Not now......Mom". In short, although this may be another ruse, if 511 involves the return of Jean or sets the seeds for it, don't be surprised. What makes you so sure Maddie is coming back?
Last Edited By: The Thunderbird
05/26/09 4:16 PM.
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fuuin ekusu |
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Posts: 483 (05/26/09 5:02 PM) Registered User |
Umm, where have they stated categorically that she was coming back? I have yet to see that.... It's always been implied with a reference to someone
else or the color of her hair or... well... you get the idea, no?
Maddie DID have the Phoenix, when she was first introduced. So one would need more than just a spark to fool Wolverine since Maddie never fooled him that
she was Jean, even before he smelled the real Jean in the tunnels.
Last Edited By: fuuin ekusu
05/26/09 5:11 PM.
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ersatz |
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Posts: 1083 (05/26/09 6:21 PM) |
"Dead is dead." The one character we were assured (for decades) was absolutely positively dead, dead, dead and never coming back was Captain
America's Bucky. And where is James "Bucky" Barnes today? Starring in the Captain America title. (The best title published by Marvel for the
past two years, in case you haven't read it for yourself.)
Nightcrawler is Mystique's mother.Wow. I have to admit that I am seriously behind on the retcons!
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The Thunderbird |
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Posts: 51 (05/26/09 6:44 PM) |
fuuin ekusu wrote:Comics Continuum reported that "seeds were being planted" for Jean's return at the SDCC in summer 2008. Which plotlines were being introduced at that time? Magneto and the High Evolutionary going off into space to find a way to reverse M-Day and the Hellfire Cult, which was organized by the Red Queen to get the mutants out of San Fran, which directly leads to Sisterhood. Also I doubt that the cover that portrays Phoenix rising from the grave, the solicit that points out that the cover speaks for itself, and the fact that they are trading the original Phoenix Rising storyline at the same exact time is just coincidence. 511 would either involve to Jean's return, or establish that she's on her way back. I have nothing against Madelyne Pryor, I just don't want her character to be used as a red herring that was supposed to lead to someone else. I thought the Goblyn Queen was a cool villian and it was wrong for Scott to walk out on her in X-Factor #1 and retconning her as clone does not justify that kind of behavior.
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